Two amazing bits of music.  

Posted by Agnes Regina

Here is one of the loveliest motets I've heard in a long time, in Italian: Leo XIII's poem Neve non tocca, to the Immaculate Conception, beautifully set by Father Lorenzo Perosi (a dear friend of St. Pius X and composer to the Vatican during his pontificate.)

And here is Edvard Grieg's marvelous Ave Maris Stella.

This entry was posted on October 28, 2010 at Thursday, October 28, 2010 . You can follow any responses to this entry through the comments feed .


Are they on youtube?

This communist headed or freemason headed library blocks the videos.

Maybe because I began trying out a hypnosis video on the other library?

Speaking of which: your father is neurologist, but he is also a trad cath. What does he think of hypnosis? I have a hunch it is diabolical, not in state - those brain waves do occur naturally too - but in use.

Our Lord told disciples to "stay awake and pray", hypnotists typically ORDER sleep. When Our Lord told them "sleep then" I think it was more of an "OK" than an order.

October 29, 2010 at 2:19 PM

yes, they are on youtube - odd that the library blocked them.

As to the Catholic take on to hypnosis, I don't know. I wouldn't call it a good thing, but that's just my gut reaction to it. I don't know if the Church has any particular dictate on it, though I know the Church warns against anything to do with the preternatural, anything 'magical,' which I think hypnosis sort of fits into...

October 31, 2010 at 10:31 PM

I wouldn't call it a good thing, but that's just my gut reaction to it.

Mine too, abundantly. When a teen, demoralised by boarding school after a year there or so, I wanted to try hypnotising, I started out with autohypnosis, I wound up freed from it, but convinced it was bad.

I am convinced some things done in "party hypnotism" are sufficiently close to Harry Potter spells to merit the qualification witchcraft. I am also convinced it did exist in Pagan Rome - confer a Latin dictionary on "fascinatio" and was part of the stock and trade of witches and magicians, just like abortive drugs (which now are made by companies), sterility drugs (now known as "the pill"), "love philters" (now known as Viagra) ...

I am less sure whether it is true that the help of the demon is needed for it to work. But I am sure what hypnosis can do, the demon can do too, at least with people unprotected by God and Grace.

What does that make of Christians who engage in clinical hypnosis? I do not know, after all, what the demon can do, an angel can do too. But I am inclined to think the role of pendulums in hypnosis may have inclined Pius XII to forbid the use of pendulums in divination. (It is not counted among the illicit divinatory arts in Exodus, and St Jean-Marie Vianney did use it, I think St Giovanni Bosco too. I know this since following part of debate between "Popes" Michael I and Pius XIII: the latter says the former cannot be Pope since a layman, the former says the latter cannot be Pope since a heretic using the pendulum).

For my part, I think also that some kinds of prayer are related to hypnotic induction as much and as little as Holy Mass to Pagan Sacrifices. Also, as getting tipsy is related to getting soak drunk.

November 2, 2010 at 5:07 AM

Biblical reference of course: Matthew 26:45

November 2, 2010 at 5:14 AM

Between the "sleep ye now" and the "behold the hour is at hand" either they did drowse, or not, if not it means he told them they could sleep when they had seen the betrayal and run away.

November 2, 2010 at 5:16 AM

Mark 14:41-42 adding the words "it is enough" however seems to indicate a possibility they dropped asleep and were woken up before those words.

November 2, 2010 at 11:05 AM

Did I mention I love the text of Ave Maris Stella?

I used to know it by heart.

Did you take Neve non tocca along with it to indicate the probable sources (RL) of A Elbereth Gilthoniel?

Unfortunately, Edvard composing music to it does not necessarily mean he was Roman Catholic, there are poets and musicians, even masons (the poet I think of seems to have been one) up around where I come from, who have more Marian devotion than official Lutheran stance.

November 3, 2010 at 5:17 AM

A Elbereth Gilthoniel beginning and end fairly Ave Maris Stella, some before end close to Neve non tocca.

November 3, 2010 at 5:20 AM

I never said Grieg was Catholic, (I don't know what his religious persuasions were, considering he was Norwegian I'd assume Lutheran.) But he sure wrote some good Catholic music there.

I love the Ave Maris Stella as well, and I do have it memorized, due to singing it in so many processions!

And yes, A Elbereth definitely has Marian tones to it! One more reason the Lord of the Rings is the best Catholic epic ever! I don't know if Tolkien was familiar with Leo XIII's poem or Perosi's setting thereof, but it certainly is similar.

November 4, 2010 at 2:13 PM

Lutheran Church is majority religion of these Northern Countries. Lutheran theology or heresy asit was is however as minoritarian in its own Church as Catholicism is in France.

Most musicians up there belong to a Church with a Catechism (Luther's smaller) that considers Hail Mary as idolatry, and still have no problems with singing Schubert's Hail Mary/Ave Maria, or, as seen from Grieg, with composing an Ave Maris Stella.

A state of mind I consider closer to masonry than to Lutheranism, but that is no reason not to like his Ave Maris Stella.

Bo Setterlind was unfrtunately a Freemason and Lutheran Church has not taken his Marian poem unchanged. The refrain as he originally wrote it is:

Sjung vaar Herres moders lov, Salve, Salve, Salve Regina

but it was changed - I think he wrote second version on request - to:

Sjung med henne Herrens lov, Salve ... et c

Thus "Sing the praise of the Mother of Our Lord" became "Sing with her the praise of the Lord" (the phrases have same metre in Swedish).

One of the best poets in Swedish, contemporary wise, though he died these recent years. The non-accept-ance of his original text was one of my reasons for chosing conversion.

November 5, 2010 at 4:13 AM

Neve non tocca - sheet music.

November 5, 2010 at 11:55 AM

It's also on CPDL, which is where I discovered it.

November 7, 2010 at 9:51 PM


November 8, 2010 at 7:57 AM

Sorry, CPDL?

November 8, 2010 at 9:52 AM

Happy Feast day!

December 8, 2010 at 7:25 AM

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